This is a very thoughtfully written and I appreciate your ideas. I have to say that I have a friend who tried to commit suicide only because he was in a psychotic and horrible state in which he was not thinking clearly and was not himself at all. It was not a reflection on who he truly was as a believer or as a person. In spite of terrible blood loss, God spared his life and he is doing well now. Mental illness is a true disease of the function of the brain and if a believer commits suicide in such a state, as you have said, s/he is not lost. It's a very sad thing. People who deal with such a disease can live in utter torment as my friend did for many years, but is now very happy and growing in Christ as he has received excellent medical care. Thank you for your thoughtful treatment of the issue.
I believe that repentance is something that happens in the Christian life but that the lack of it will only lead a believer to be out of fellowship with God rather than lose their salvation. If a person does not repent of sin, they will miss out on closeness with God and waste opportunities to be a blessing to God and to people. They will lose rewards in heaven.
IMHO, to commit suicide is the only action worth of the expression, unpardonable sin because, to be forgiven, one must plead for it and, once dead, the person has lost that chance. Therefore, the one who commits suicide can never be forgiven.
I agree with Ben Masada that the sin we dont repent of is a sin that cant be pardoned ("unpardonable sin"). Any sin that we idolize over a good relationship with G-D.I also see a judgement happening at physical death/ Heb.9:27 (seperation of those in and those outside of a postive covenant with G-D). However, This is not the "Finial", "Great White Throne Judgement" which happens at the End of The LORD's day (Rev.20) mentioned within the "N.T." (Brit Chadasha).
According to the bible in its complete form (OT & NT together) we see mention of a spirit realm in which at physical death spirits are separated into two groups (those in covenant and those outside of the covenant). And at the beginning of the Lord's day (1000 year/1 day reign of Messiah) those who are in covenant are forever redeemed by the (1st) resurrection and serve as priests during the Lord's day (to who? those who didnt make the first fruits/ didnt take part in the first resurrection). At the 7th trumpet (the beginning of the Lord's day some partake in the 1st resurrection (all take part in a "change" thus are separated from their flesh and only found in spirit) Those who didnt find favor at the harvest dont take part in the 1st resurrection yet like all have taken part in the 1st death (physical). At the end of the Lord's day they will either take part in the 2nd death (spiritual) or the 2nd resuurection (be justified). During that time they will be free from the (lusts of the) flesh and the temptation of the acusser (HaSatan). For HaSatan will be locked away for 1,000 yrs (1 day). During this same time these lost souls will be ministered unto by the priests. Then prior to the Great white throne judgement the accuser is loosed again to tempt them to see where their heart is. If they side with him in rebellion (at the FINAL great white throne judgement) they then will be cast into the lake of fire the 2nd death (spiritual). These things are most clearly seen in Rev.20 (Compard with Dan.12:1-2 (vs 1 relative to the tribulation just prior to the Lord's day and the beginning of the Lord's day/harvest) (vs 2 relative to the end of the Lord's day) There are many scripture relative too this subject but I also want to go ahead and suggest 1 Cor.15 here (Dan.12:1= Rev.20:4-6/ Beginning of the Lord's day) Dan.12:2= Rev.20:12-15 End of the Lord's day. I also suggest following blog subjects
- Where are the dead/ http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/where-r-the-dead-comf...
- Gathering back to Messiah http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/pre-trib-rapture-dece...
So in closing, those who commit suicide are not in good standing but still have hope at the Final judgement. Also where is the line that points to suicide? Any comments on Samson? He fought the enemy of Israel thus saved many lives and in his death he killed more of the enemy than before. Yeshua overcame death. I can't condemn either of them in anyway yet I still try to understand the death of Samson more and more as time goes by in relation to "suicide".
As I said above, suicide is the unforgivable sin because the dead have lost the chance to be forgiven. Only the living are forgiven because they plead for it and still have the time to demonstrate it by setting things right with God. (Isa. 1:18,19) Can one still ask for forgiveness after committing suicide? Obviously not. So, that's what it is: The unforgivable sin.
Now, the Pharisees could not have accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil because they did not believe in demons or devils. Jesus IMHO was also of the line of the Pharisees. So, why would the Pharisees accuse him of any thing at all? I think this is part of a grudge of the Hellenist who wrote the gospel attributed to Matthew against the Jewish authorities. The author must have been a former disciples of Paul's who was being loyal to the anti-Jewish feelings of Paul.
I also agree to disagree Masada. You say: "Can one still ask for forgiveness after committing suicide? Obviously not." But I wonder why you mention Is.1:18-19 in relation to that cause it never said that & I showed how your conclusion within your statement (I quoted) isn't supported with scripture.
The Hebrew word that would apply to "devils" and or "demons" of the greek texts of the NT would be "shed" (H#7700) as in Deut.32:17/ &/ Ps.106:37
Rendered in English Tanakh as "They sacrificed to demons, which have no power, deities they did not know, new things that only recently came, which your forefathers did not fear"
יִזְבְּחוּ לַשֵּׁדִים לֹא אֱלֹהַּ אֱלֹהִים לֹא יְדָעוּם חֲדָשִׁים מִקָּרֹב בָּאוּ לֹא שְׂעָרוּם אֲבֹתֵיכֶם
/&/ They slaughtered their sons and daughters to the demons.
וַיִּזְבְּחוּ אֶת בְּנֵיהֶם וְאֶת בְּנוֹתֵיהֶם לַשֵּׁדִים
The Pharisees don't not accuse people simply cause they are also Pharisees. They feel it a duty to accuse anyone who is a threat to their authority and doctrine. Yahshua was given the tribal identification of being of Judah both through his legal fathers relation and his Physical mothers relation through the males which is how tribal identification is made. (even though on his mothers, mothers side he was also of Levi). I also dont know why you point fingers at Matthew (who Was attributed to the book of Matthew!) as a Hellenistic. BTW we have a Hebrew manuscript of the book of Mathew so not sure what you mean by "Hellenistic". Matthew showed he lived the Jewish culture. Also Luke recorded the same message in Lk.11 . Paul was also Jewish to the core.
Ben Masada do you have Any interest in the Faith those here share in the OT and NT?
As a result of my Biblical researches, there are two kinds of salvation. One is universal salvation from universal catastrophes of the size of the Flood. The other is personal salvation.
Universal salvation is free. We can take it for granted as a result of God's love. Soon after the Flood ceased upon earth, HaShem established a Covenant with Noah when He promised him that never again He would allow Mankind to be exterminated as long as the earth remained seedtime and harvest and cold and heat and summer and winter and the day and night shall not cease. (Gen. 8:21,22) In short, as long as the natural laws function properly.
Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected it with as long as Israel remains as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) It means that the rising of Israel years later from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would be the pledge to guarantee HaShem's promise to Noah.
Jesus must have read both those texts above and understood the reason why universal salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said and not from one among the Jews. (John 4:22)
Now, for personal salvation, it could never be free. The price is obedience to the Law. Jesus clearly implied through his parable about the Richman and Lazarus that the only way to get saved from hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) And also according to Mat. 5:17-19, Jesus made it more than clear that he came to confirm the Law and the Prophets down to the letter and that as long as there is heaven and earth, not a single command of the Law will pass away. And whoever rejects a single command of the Law shall not be worth the Kingdom of God.
Now, just a word about your conclusion above, true that you have mentioned that suicide is not an option but, to claim that suicide is forgiven, whereas I don't know how since one is dead, your suggestion is dangerous all the same to the one who has been contemplating suicide. I would say to him or her, don't do it because you will never be forgiven no matter what. Never forget that HaShem is of the living only, never of the dead. (Mark 12:27)
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and every mention of the unpardonable sin consists of knowing better and still transgressing (showing no repentance) so i for one see direct relation between the two. I agree blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unpardonable and is One way in which scripture gives a literal description of unpardonable sin.
I agree Grin Masada's comment goes against what we know as the Gospel (he claims to be a Jew in Judaism though).