Jer.11:14(11)?
When i read Jer.11:14(&11) in the English(kjv) it says
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto (-#413 not 410) me (not in the literal text) for their trouble.

Hebrew  #413-אל- el- (ale) only used in the short. constr. form - a prim particle denoting motion towards, but occasionally used of a quiescent position, i.e. near , with or amoung; often in general , to- about according to, after, against, amoung , as for, at, because (-fore, -side), both... and , by, concerning, for, from,x hath. in(-to), near, (out) of, over, through, to(-ward), under, unto, upon, weather, with(-in).

#410-אל- El - short of 352 - strength; as adj. mighty; espec. the Almighty (but used also of any deity)- God (god), x goodly,x great, idol, might(-y, one), power, strong.

I dont see where they had returned(cried) to God (in the Hebrew) but rather that they cried out for their trouble (the effect of transgression). Where does the kjv (and other English translations) find the context that these rebels in their trouble cried out to Hashem? I tend to read it more like this (according to the Hebrew texts):

Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear in the time that they cry out for their trouble.

Im basically wondering where the English finds the context of these rebels crying out To The LORD Our G-d (a form of repentance) & yet ignored reguardless of the concept of repentance (crying out to YHVH) communicated in the translation? Throughout Jer it rather says they went after other gods(rebelled), offered incense to Baal,... (vs.10,17) which is the reason of which HaShem is angry (vs11).
Returning to Hashem seems to be the goal of the message throughout Jer. and a standard to be met in order to be heard of The LORD (*2 Chron.7:14/2 Chron.6:26-27,30/ 2 Chron.12:6-7).

I understand we dont pray for others in relation to their transgression (4 success in rebellion) 2 Jn 1:11 and Are called to stress Repentance as all messengers did. Yet this translation tends to insert repentance then ignore it. If the people had turned to HaShem and yet rejected of Him i tend to think this would contradict scriptures (Is.55:7-9/ 1 Jn 1:9/ Is.43:26/ Ps.51) We cant please The Father when serving sin, cant serve 2 masters (Matt 6:24/ 1 Cor.10:21/ Heb.10:26-29/ Heb.6:1-6/ Hosea 6:6/ Ps.5:4-5). (* 2 Chron. 7:14/ Jer.3:8,12,13,17. Jer.4:14/ *Jer.5:7/ *Jer.6:17-21/ Jer.7:3,5-7,13-15,23-24,26/ Jer.8:5/ *Jer.9:13-15 (Jer.10:25)/ JER.12:16-17/ *Jer.16:11-12/ Jer16:17,21/ Jer.17:5,7) 

 

Heb.12:17. Esau was rejected even though he had changed his mind ("repented/Greek) about his vow w/ Jacob and God which in itself is a transgression(to ask Father not to work according to covenant). Crying in relation to the effect of transgression rather than embracing Hashem which would mean to accept this vow Num.30:1-2 Deut.23:21-22 Matt.5:33


So which is it (Jer.11:14/11)?
1) A people rebelled and when the effects of the rebellion came they cried for the hardness of the effect rather than returned to HaShem, thus we shouldnt pray against HaShems judgement (harshness) which serves the purpose of showing His might and authority and the need of repentance (Rev.3:19).
OR what the kjv seems to say
2)That a people transgressed & upon the effects they turned to The LORD & cried out (repented)& where ignored.
3) other

 

Jer.11:11 resembles Jer.11:14

Therefore

H3651 thusH3541 saithH559 the LORD,H3068 Behold,H2009 I will bringH935 evilH7451 uponH413 them, whichH834 they shall notH3808 be ableH3201 to escape;H3318 (H4480) and though they shall cryH2199 untoH413 me (not literally in the Hebrew texts), I will notH3808 hearkenH8085 untoH413 them.

 

#413  (unto) documented above (el not El). and #3808 is 

lo

; a primitive particle; not (the simple or abstract negation); by implication no; often used with other particles: -  X before, + or else, ere, + except, ig [-norant], much, less, nay, neither, never, no ([-ne], -r, [-thing]), (X as though . . . , [can-], for) not (out of), of nought, otherwise, out of, + surely, + as truly as, + of a truth, + verily, for want, + whether, without.

Though they shall cry out I (God) shall not harken concerning them

 

2 Pet.3:9

suggested material:

repent

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/repent-teshuva

sin no more

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2993852:BlogPost:43377

unpardonable

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-unpardonable-sin

 

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/vows-amp-oaths

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/group/shepherdschapelstudies/forum/t...

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