What does it mean to say one communes "Face to Face" with YHVH (G-d/G-D)? Be-arba enayim - literally 'with four eyes,' means face to face without the presence of a third party. 1 on 1 (Private) connection. Many people who lack spiritual understanding express the claim that the bible contradicts itself when it says no man has seen God "face to face" and then it describes some seeing (talking with) him "face to face.
- Jn.1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.(Ex.23:23)
- Ex.33:(vs.11) And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. (Jn.15:15) And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. (Deut.34:10)
To say one communes with one "face to face" isnt spacifically intended to be taken in the literal (phy) sense. Here in vs.11 the terminology is a Hebraism which means a close relation (1 on 1), direct communication/ communion as the verse emphasises with "as a man speaketh unto his friend". This is Not the same (Literal) sense as in:
- (Vs. 20) And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
(Christians: Note the ROCK in Ex.33:21-23 that made it possible for Moses to enter into such a close relation with YHVH).
Here in Ex. 33:20 we are basically told that phy. man can not phy. see Hashem while in the flesh. This is a more Literal sense of "face to face".
- Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen.16:13)
We know this one that Jacob (and Hagar) are reffering to is the Angel of The LORD. This verse relates back to Gen.16:9; (32:24). / Note Gen.32:30 "G-d" (not G-D or LORD) is translation from Elohim and NOT Y.H.V.H. and this is clearly the Angel of the Lord with further conformation in vs.14 "Man" (eesh)
It is speaking of Elohim but its not saying Jacob literally (phy) saw YHVH. Peniel is Hebrew for G-d's face (El the singular)yet propery mentioned as Elohim (plural/ assuming you know what Elohim means) in Gen.32:24 is says he wrestles a "man" (kjv) or eesh in Hebrew which isnt the word adam - physical man but is more general and denotes a masculine. None has literally physicaly seen the Face of G-D. face to face is a hebraism (which i covered at the link i believe) he was personally communing 1 on 1 with the *angel/messenger of the Lord (you can feel free to ask any Hebrew/ "Jew" about the text. Its in the same sense as Yeshua said he who believeth on me believeth not on me but he who sent me and he who seeth me seeth the Father he went on to say what this meant. My works testify of who I Am. The message of this messenger of the LORD (Elohim) is in reguards to jacob's relation to Esau. later 33:10 Jacob said unto Esau "I have seen thy face as though I had seen the face of G-d...
If it was an out of body experience I would have to apply the devine standard and highlight Im speaking spiritually and thus he saw the "face" of G-d (in some sense) but not physically (still).
For the Spiritual to interact with the Phy in a Phy way a vehicle is used. (example: flesh is the vehicle our spirits use to interact with the phy. in a phy. way.) We are made in the same image (Likeness) as the angels. Gen. describes These angels as eating phy. food and it sustaining them and Gen. also mentions man (Israel) partaking of angels food in the wilderness.
The Angel of The LORD is Mashiach (Messiah) prior to phy. birth. Mashiach is known as the right hand (Power and works) of YHVH (in realtion to creation/ phy realm) and also called Adon which is LORD as IN the earth. We are told you see the Father in ones works/ word/ fruits. If one can comprehend Jn.12:44-45 in truth he would know the hebraism used in the Torah.
................... HaAdon Yeshua Mashiach .......................
- Jn. 12:44-45 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me
Jn.14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
- Jn.14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen (G#3708) me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?.... (G3708- horao- Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed.) .......... When Yeshua says if you seen me you have seen the Father, its clear to me he is speaking about his works/fruits/ The Word and will of G-D being carried out (fulfilled) in his life (blood). Thats how we are told to discern spirits (by fruits). Ex.33:20/
Yeshua came not to do his own will, but the will of he who sent him. (Adon/ The Right hand - power and works/ of G-D/ Mashiach). That which he is (Messiah/ anointed), that which he does is "Elohim" (divine judgement and authority).
Jn.10:30 I and my Father are one Jn4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Jn.10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (Emmanuel)
Maimonides (Highly respected Jewish sage) said: "I must premise that every Hebrew knows that the term Elohim is a homonym, and denotes God, angels, judges, and kings, .. (Elohim means divine judgement and authority and is used not only to identify HaShem (YHVH) but all instruments of HaShem (divine judgement and authority) as well as that which is perceived to be divine (such as idols to idolaters).
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; *neither *came *I *of *myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Jn.5:30,36-37 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. / But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Jn.1:18 *No *man *hath *seen God at any time, the only begotten *Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1 Tim.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
1 Cor.12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit
Lk.10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. Deut.18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him
Heb.1:1-4 (Jn.1:1,14 "made"- "ginomai" - to come to pass /fulfill The word was fulfilled in the flesh of Yeshua!)
Abraham (Gen.17,18 &19)also came into direct contact with The angel of The LORD. These beings are described as "angels"/"men"/ and one is called "the LORD". (Gen.17:1 / Gen.18:1 "The LORD"/ Gen.18:2 "three men"/ Gen.18:3 "My Lord"/ Gen.18:13 "the LORD"/ vs.14 "the LORD"/ vs.16 "men"/ vs.20 "the LORD"/ vs.22"men" / vs.33 "the LORD"/ Gen.19:1 "two angels" Two of the ones reffered to as men are now called angels.) Melchizedek
- Ex.24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw (H#2372) God (Elohim/ #430) , and did eat and drink.(vs.8 blood of the covenant Heb.9:20) Hebrew - chazah- #2372- A primative root; to gaze at; mentally to percieve, contemplate (with pleasure); specifically to have a vision of- behold, look, prophacy, provide, see./ Rather than the other Hebrew word which also is translated to see/ or "saw": #7200- raah- prim. root to see, literal or figurative in numerouse applications,....
- Job.42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Compare to Job.42:3 / Shama- hear and observe (understanding). Heb.11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Biblical faith consists of evidence which is the same thing Job is sharing. He expressed that he had been told of G-d but now his eye (H# 5869 ahyin- literally OR FIGURATIVELY - by affliction, outward appearance, favor, perception, .... ) (H #7200- raah- literally or Figuratively- approve, behold, Have Experience, take heed, reguard, ......
Num.12:7-8 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
Who has seen God? Who has a relationship (Is one) with God?
Judges 13:22 (Samson's parents saw God)
Ex.24:9-11 (Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and 70 elders of Israel)
Ex.6:3 (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)
Jn.12/14 (the disciples)
What phy. man has been in has been in contact with YHVH defacto? None, the closest one was Moses but even then it was made possible by Mashiach.
Last updated by His_Will Apr 19.