I found one error in the film when it stated that YHWH provided a lamb in the place of Yitzhak that day on Mount MoriYah (Chosen of Yah). Yah provided a Ram which was caught in the thickets that day by it's horns for a burnt offering and the true lamb of Elohim would be provided at Calvary many years later, Yahushua Ha Moshiach. The lamb mentioned in that passage was actually a very early prophecy concerning the coming of Moshiach.

Also, The shin letter in the original Paleo Hebrew is also W shaped but still different looking than the 3 valleys so I am not sure that a case can be totally proven for the assertion in the film or not. It is fuzzy but still very fascinating none the less.

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Hi Moshe,

The video being discussed can be found here: http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/video/jerusalem-i-will-put-my-name-t...

While the outline of the valleys may not appear as a detailed resemblance to the common shin symbol I personally do see a shin in the highlighted valleys as shown in the pics.

I don't however feel this is the exact context of the verse nor do i feel that one needs to outline these valleys and claim to see a shin here to know and understand the verse.

I believe that the foundation of the verse relates to Name (Shem) in the context of its meaning. Both in Hebrew and Greek name carries with it the meaning of CHARACTER! Throughout the scriptures we see that G-d does see the territory of Yehuda as being established to be a light unto the nations. To show forth the character of G-d. Judah is the king line and the territory of Judah was the captial of IsraEL. There was a righteous standard established there that we call Torah. The territory of Judah is much more than just the holy temple mount. Its in this territory that Messiah was Born and crusified! (Jewish sages also say that its the same area in which Adam was created of the dust, the area where Isaac was bound, and the area in which a temple would stand.) I found the video interesting yet not something i would consider a biblical teaching.

I do see geography (mountains and valleys) of the territory of Judah as playing a major part in symbology of the last day. (Zech.14:5 Matt.24:16). This location is the barometer of the times. It is highlighted at the return of Messiah as well!

 

Yes, I agree that the territory of Yahudah is where all of the endtime action will culminate. I also find it very fascinating that Yah repeatedly said that he would bring the children/tribes of Yisrael to "the place where I will put /place my name" in many scriptures before they even put one toe into the parted Yarden River bed to enter into the promised land.

In Devarim 4 and in many other chapters, Yah, through his Prophet Moshe tells Yisrael their whole entire history of going into the land, prospering, becoming complacent and unthankful, prideful and then idolatrous & that they would then be scattered/exiled throughout the world, chased, tormented, enslaved, killed and then in the latter days, that they would be regathered once again to the Land of Yisrael.

Zechariah 12:7 YHWH also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

We are seeing the gathering of Yahudah right before our eyes and eventually the remaining remnants of the other 11 tribes will follow at the restoration of the Kingdom with Dawid ha Melech (Yahushua) ruling and reigning in Yahrushalayim forever. Amazing.

Shalom & Ahava, Moshe

IMHO, there is no Judah first but as the only kingdom that is supposed to remain as the only People before the Lord forever. (Ezek. 37:22) True that about 10% of the "lost" Tribes of Israel escaped Assyria and joined Judah in the South but there will never be two kingdoms or two nations again. Israel aka the Tabernacle of Joseph was Divinely rejected forever while Judah was confirmed. ( Psalm 78:67-69). Since then and with time, the name "Israel" became common with Judah. Therefore, any reference to Israel has become the same as a reference to Judah aka the Jewish People.

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you will sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

The bottom line of this midrash is that the whole thing about sacrificing Isaac happen in the course of a dream. It never happened literally. That's how HaShem would reveal Himself to His servants the Prophets. Abraham was the first Prophet. (Numb. 12:6)

I believe the account Of Abraham and Isaac literally and the words and interpretations of human authors as just that. speculations. We are to not add or take away from His Word. Everyone is following the words of men and traditions. The catholics have the fathers and councils and 1750 laws on their books, The Yahudim have the Talmud, the Mormons  have Joseph Smith' writings and those of the Mormon church....ect....

I will stick to what I know is the only source of 100% pure truth, The Word of YHWH.

He does what he say's literally.

Does it means that you, literally, believe in talking serpents and mules, and discard what Torah says in Numbers 12:6 that, to His servants the Prophets, HaShem used to reveal His will only through visions and dreams? To me, this is the same as to be a member of the literal interpretation club. Perhaps you also take parables and allegories at their face value? I don't know if you are a Christian but since it seems to me, did you know that Jesus used to teach in parables? There are many in the Tanach too which, if we take them literally, we will only be digging contradictions in it.

Personally i confirmed Num.12 and its important to note its context:

Num.12:6-8 He said, "Please listen to My words. If there be prophets among you, [I] the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision; I will speak to him in a dream. Not so is My servant Moses; he is faithful throughout My house. With him I speak mouth to mouth; in a vision and not in riddles, and he beholds the image of the Lord. So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses ?

(vs.8 in kjv With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?)

The Hebrew word in vs.6 (H#4759/ ) and vs 8 (H#4758) are slightly different for a reason.

H# 4759  mar'âh/ mar-aw'/Feminine of H4758; a vision; also (causatively) a mirror: - looking glass, vision.

H#4757 /mar'eh/mar-eh'

From H7200; a view (the act of seeing); also an appearance (the thing seen), whether (real) a shape (especially if handsome, comeliness; often plural the looks), or (mental) a vision: - X apparently, appearance (-reth), X as soon as beautiful (-ly), countenance, fair, favoured, form, goodly, to look (up) on (to), look [-eth], pattern, to see, seem, sight, visage, vision.

 So Prior to Moshe we see G-D communicated with the prophets via visions and dreams and I went into this in relation to how Hashem doesn't literally (physically) appear to Abraham (or any/ other than through fruits and likeness) but rather they commune directly with the Angel of The LORD (thus a vision/ Spiritually). Real event are mentioned by the prophets. Some figurative language is used but when understood they too become a literal. Moshe brought us the Torah in which is how we know Abraham and the story of the subject which describes Abraham in relation to G-D. 

If everything the prophets mentioned can be boxed up as only figurative and not actual events then where does that leave us? 

We cant use Num.12:6 to add to and completely change the story of Abraham and Isaac which this modern book you mention seems to do.

Even symbology, figurative language,... becomes a literal when understood in truth. 

Also lets rewind back to Num.12:1 and read forward so vs.6 can be seen for what it is saying. Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses and said  Vs.2 "Hath the LORD indeed spoken only unto Moses?Hath he not also spoken by us?".... Then vs 4 The LORD spoke unto 1) Moses, and 2) Unto Aaron and 3) Miram/ (were 3 people dreamining the same dream, having the same vision at one time?/ Even that question shows something was literally happening) but lets continue! vs.5 The LORD came down and called Aaron and Miriam forward and spoke vs 6 to them. IF THERE BE A PROPHET AMONG YOU (WHO?) Aaron and Miriam/ I will make myself known unto him (who? those prophets among Aaron and Miriam) in a vison and speak unto him in a dream. My Servant Moses is NOT SO. So it was speaking of order of authority that Moshe had Direct communication with Hashem yet any other prophets among the people of Aaron and Miriam didnt have this same relation. / Moses grew up away from the family and people of Israel favored once by Egyptian royalty and then not so much so but showed concern to G-d that the people (Israel) wouldnt accept him for many reasons (slow of speech/ and his dissidence) Thus G-D was again speaking directly to Aaron and Miriam of how Moshe was indeed favored of Hashem and should be respected as such and Aaron and Miriam were already respected among the people.  

Regarding Numbers 12:6-8, the text is only an embellishment to distinguish Moshe from the other prophets as the most important prophet in the history of Israel. If we take it on a literal basis as you seem to be doing, you are simply building a contradiction in the Torah.  If you read Exodus 33:18,20 when Moshe asked to see the glory of HaShem aka His face, the answer from the Lord to Moshe was negative because no man could see his face and live, including Moshe. Therefore, your interpretation of Numbers 12:6-8 could never be literal. Bottom line is that as far as seeing HaShem or speaking to Him "face-to-face" was concerned, every time this happened with Moshe, it was during a dream or vision.

I already said "To Literally see G-D (in a physical form) was out of the question." Seem you totally missed that after reading you post in assuming I somehow mean the opposite. So your other comment also shows you didnt pay attention to my post either. Good Day I'm no longer interested in discussion.

 

When Abraham had communion with G-D we see he often communicated with the Angel of The LORD. To Literally see G-D (in a physical form) was out of the question. In this way I can see where he received revelations through visions ("Num.12") but I'm with Moshe, I believe the act of taking Isaac up the mount and making a burnt offering unto The LORD was literally faith in action and not a dream. 

In scripture I don't see G-D literally telling Abraham to Kill/slay Isaac in any way. Its an  assumption (interpretation) in that he did tell Abraham to take Isaac up the mount and make a burnt offering (which would include death of such an offering) unto The LORD.

Gen.22:2 (kjv) And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and "offer (alah) him" there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. The "him" isnt in the Hebrew texts here.

The Tanakh reads: Gen.22:2 "And He said, "Please take your son, your only one, whom you love, yea, Isaac, and go away to the land of Moriah and bring him up there for a burnt offering on one of the mountains, of which I will tell you."

(Rashi's commentary in side margin of Tanach: "bring him up: He did not say to him, “Slaughter him,” because the Holy One, blessed be He, did not wish him to slaughter him but to bring him up to the mountain, to prepare him for a burnt offering, and as soon as he brought him up [to the mountain], He said to him, “Take him down.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 56:8]")

The way it was worded in The Word allowed for a way out for Isaac depending on the faith of Abraham! Abraham's faith was strong towards Isaac remaining alive the whole time!  1) Before Abraham ever even ascended the mount he told those there that both he and his son (Isaac) were going up the mount and both he and his son were coming back down. This didnt allow for Isaac to be made a sacrifice. Gen:22:5 
And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship(make a burnt offering) and come again to you.

Abraham did this again as he ascended the mount. Isaac asked where is the sacrifice. Abraham didnt say Your IT Son, No instead out of faith he again spoke in a way that allowed for Isaac to not be made the sacrifice. 

Gen.22:8

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering : so they went both of them together. (Jn.1:29,36).

The story line ("a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann") posted in the original post (o.p) - "Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you..." This doesnt sound like the shem of HaShem. Its very deceptive and is a lie. I can't believe this is anything more than words of man (and we see no clue of this in the written Torah). This source ""Joseph and his Brothers" was published in "1943" and under the genre of "fiction". I agree G-D is Not "Molech bull-king of the baalites" but i don't think we need this modern source to know this! Also do we serve a G-D that would identify himself as something he isnt? Would he do anything that even for a moment would encourage us to follow after an idol? Does He make a command that he later dares us to follow then make that prior command out to be a joke? I think not. Ben Masada what do you think of this story line you presented to us? Do You take it seriously?  To each his own, Just interested.

http://friendsnchrist.ning.com/profiles/blogs/abraham-and-isaac-lamb 

The story also mentions some servants who went along up until a certain point and they were told to remain at that place until Abraham and the lad returned. Abraham and son went not knowing for sure where they were going. YHWH said He would show them the place of sacrifice when they drew near to the mountains.

Mount MoriYah, (Mountain chosen of YAH).

MT. Moriyah was to become the place where YHWH would put his name forever and it is the Temple Mount of today in Yahrushalayim.  YHWH provided a Ram that day but foretold of the Lamb that he would provide in the future, Yahushua, the lamb of Elohim God.

Also the knife was more than just a knife, it was a Butchering cleaver and probably a very fearful thing to see in the hands of your Father under those circumstances. Isaac asks about the fire and wood but makes no mention of the cleaver in his fathers hand.

And let us not forget Hebrews 11:

17  By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; 18 it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED." 19 He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.

If this story is not literal, then how do we know which ones are and which are not? Are they all dreams and visions with other meanings than what they seem to be telling us. I stick with the simple and easy to understand literal story here.

To me, it means that indeed, every thing happened to Abraham in a dream and, according to the analogy in the book "Joseph and His Brothers" nothing was literal. (Numb. 12:6) Abraham never even left his bed to go all the way to Mount Moriah with Isaac and effect the binding of Isaac. That's what that metaphorical exercise was; just a binding. There was no sacrifice as we all know it. Would Abraham go through all that ritual if it was not a dream? The only thing literal was Abraham's admiration for the way the pagans of Canaan expressed their love for Baal by offering their firstborn in a burning sacrifice. Obviously, a thought crossed Abraham's mind if he was missing anything in his way to demonstrate how strong was also his love for Hashem. So, he had a dream when HaShem declared that with Abraham's seed aka the Israelites, it had to be different: No human sacrifices.  

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